"She's very emotional for a child, she really is."(Salinger 68)
So, Holden's finally good and settled in his hotel in New York. And who wants to spend their first night back in The Big Apple just sitting around doing nothing? Not Holden, that's for sure. So we find the majority of this story happening in "The Lavender Room": a nightclub attached to the hotel Holden is staying in.
Holden, being underage, finds himself unable to drink and (as always) pretty annoyed at everything going on around him. Strange...considering what he has to say about his sister (Phoebe) being emotional for a child. Hmm...who else do we know that tends to be rather emotional? What does this tell us about that character? Maybe they aren't as mature as they think.
As we talked about in class today, maturity is a funny thing. For many of us, in some ways we want to grow up and mature. In other ways, we fight maturity. As we say in the United States:
In other words...the fact that we age, is unavoidable. However, our maturity? Well, let's just say it's more of a choice :-). Let me give you an example. My family tends to be very informal people. Whether you're new to the family or you are born into it, most of my family gatherings are filled with inappropriate jokes, childish pranks/games, and people in their 50s and 60s acting like they are in their 20s. My father, a man I always turn to for advice and wisdom, has the same maturity as a college student when my brother and I are around, but at the same time is still often quite sophisticated and appropriate when he needs to be.
Does this mean it is impossible to be both mature and immature? How can we perceive maturity and immaturity?
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| Is it a scale? That as one end becomes heavier, the other side appears to be lighter? |
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| Maturity |
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| Immaturity |
Is it more like two piggy banks? Where every action we do is like we are adding a coin to one or the other? Both filling up, never emptying, but a certain balance between the two where sometimes maybe one has more deposits than the other?
Or is it like walking the tightrope? ALWAYS on that fine line drawn between the two, and at any moment you can bend one way or the other?
For homework, I want you to explain how you view maturity/immaturity. And then use evidence from chapters 9 & 10 of CITR to explain where you think Holden falls into your analogy. Post your answer in the comments section below.
Keep up the great work ladies and gentlemen! Dare to be curious! :-)
-Barton
I view a person as mature man when I see a person who think first before move on to the action. For example, Holden tried to call his relatives with avoid to call them at wrong time. I view a person as immature man when I see a person who offers alcohol to the man who is busy of workng to kill some time. For example, Holden offered a taxi driver who is working some cocktails.
ReplyDeleteI think maturity is an ability that have a responsibility about their behaviors
ReplyDeleteHowever, after I read the book, I think Holden was an immature person. Because, he acted whatever he want, but he didn't think his parents, how about they hurt their mind, and feel angry, after they get the news. So I think Holden was immaturity.
I think maturity is that a person grow up more than previous life and he/she thinks about something in deepeset way, they think before act. For example, Holden wants to call Phoebe because he wants to talk about what is right thing. Also, I think immaturity is that a person who acts like a child. For example, Holden wants to drink some alcohol even though he is teenager.
ReplyDeleteImmaturity is proper word for describing Holden. In chapter 9, as he talks with a girl on a phone, he lies to her like he pretends to know who the Eddie is, when she asked how the Eddie is. In chapter 10, he talks Bernice with bad slangs despite it was the first meeting with Bernice. In these context, I felt that Holden is rude and immature because he is a big liar to anyone, including the ones who is the first meeting with him.
ReplyDeleteMy word, 'mature' is that someone who have ability to think about other's mind. In this chapter, Holden didn't have this ability. Because he just escape from reality. If he was mature person, he wouldn't be do that. Because mature people can think about their parent who concerned about their child. So I think Holden is a immature person.
ReplyDeleteWhat is mean 'CITR'?
DeleteI just use "CITR" for an acronym for "Catcher in the Rye". It makes it quicker when typing or writing it :-).
DeleteI think maturity means the person able to control their emotion and is able to think rationally about what they’re doing and how it affects others. In chapter 9 and 10, I couldn’t see that he’s maturity; I can only see the immature Holden. I believe that Immaturity means acting like a kid not taking things seriously. For example, in chapter 10, Holden failed to trick the waiter to order a scotch. The waiter found out he was not in minimum legal drinking age, so he asks for his driver license. He is so cowardly that he changed an alcohol to coke straight away. A mature person will never try to trick person like in this stupid ways.
ReplyDeleteI think that maturity is kind of process. Why I think maturity is process is it can't be perfect because our mental is growing all day. So I think that Holden is mature because he consulted with her sister but he decided himself. Therefore, immature is also kind of process. I think Holden is growing to adult now and going on.
ReplyDeleteI stare at people's eyes. It gives me many impressions on them whether they are sincere or not. This is one of the most significant facts that determine what kind of people they are.
ReplyDeleteSo, in my opinion, I want to see Holden face to face.
Based on the Chapter 9, I can say that Holden is immature. He made a rash decision about the taxi driver. Also, ha ignored old man, which means morality.
I think maturity means someone whose mind is matured by their experiences. In chapter 10, Holden mentions Poebe, his younger sister. She is one of the few people Holden likes. Poebe doesn't complain even when Holden takes her to a movie which have been seen several times together. It is boring if you see the same movie considerable amount of times. But Poebe withstands the boredom and decides to have fun with her brother. That's mature enough. And also, she even talks or asks to Holden while he's having conversation with Ally. Poebe has thorough maturity to understand and listen to them.
ReplyDeleteI think people are mature as well as immature because we are not always perfect. But, with this we can know our weakness and recognize that we have to still grow up and develop ourselves. It means the process of finding who I am. Like this, Holden is mature because he is worried about his families and loves them but, he is also immature. He does bad things that he makes his parents worried and tries to do inappropriate behavior in his age such as drinking.
ReplyDeleteI think maturity is fully development. In CITR we could see Holden's maturity when he was considering who he would gonna call and why he couldn't call. He was wondering he could bother people if he call in late night. Also immaturity is emotionally undevelopment. We can find Holden's immaturity when he phone called Faith Cavendish and asked her to drink cocktail in late night.
ReplyDeleteI think maturity is the way that person can deal with his behaviour and his feeling. Thus, holden can seems to be immature to me. He looks like he cannot get through his feeling so that he acts as he thinks something. In CITR you can see it when he went to the lavender room. Even he is under-twenty one, he acted like over it. As he cannot through this situation he just said poped-up in his mind.
ReplyDeleteOne said, controlling one's desire of doing something is the most significant part for a person. Without any restraint, they can be easily hurt. Maturity of men is measured by degree of their emotional moderation.
ReplyDeleteHowever by reading chapter 9, we can figure out that Holden's not likely to control his desire. He had moved as he wanted, and that led him to feel loneliness. So it can be said that he's immature.
People become mature person as time goes on. There are no one who are muture at first. We were born immature but, as we live on and on, we are going to be more muture. Holden is also one of people who are not muture person at first. Holden was in course that change him immuture to muture. His behavior like don't going his home was immuture. I think he will be more muture person as he experienced immuture things.
ReplyDeleteThe way to distinct mature and immature is to see how a person hides their emotions efficiently or how they use their personas effectively. And the chapters 9&10 in CITR shows Holden as a mature person. As I read through the chapters in CITR, Holden changed as chapters go on. He still had a lot of words inside his mind, but he didn't mention it to people. Rather, he hid his thoughts and emotions, and kept them inside his mind.
ReplyDeleteI don't usually decide a person is mature or not. It is because a person may have comfortable feeling on someone like best friends (some can be very silly or immature.). However, if the person is in the same situation with unfamiliar person, he will act completely different. Therefore, I think I can't decide easily whether a person is mature or not.
ReplyDeleteIn chapter 9, Holden was looking at a girl and a man near the window squirting water at each other. Holden squirted water himself and thought of the girl, which was really dirty and immature.
I believe that when someone is mature, they can handle their difficulty efficiently by understanding their emotions. In Holden's case, I still think he is still immature in this way. For example, in chapter10, he can't hide his feelings and tell other women that she is a good or a bad dancer. However, I can also predict that he will become more mature than before, because in chapter 10, he is meeting many different old people in the club and this will bring him a lot of experiences.
ReplyDeleteMaturity means acting as an adult take it upon himself.Holden acted on the contrary to this.
ReplyDeleteHe has no sense of responsbility. He ran away from Pencey and visited New York without any plan and he never even call his parent that he was
expelled from school.Moreover, After visiting New York, Holden tries to contact with whore that Princetion guy told him.
Of course, guys in Holden's age can rebel against the restraint imposed by social things like school grade,parent,etc.
However, his behavior is so serious. He should learn meaning of word "responsibility".
Mostly, I judge maturity and immaturity by common sense. What I mean is if a person is lack of common sense, I think he or she is immature, but someone act more than common sense, I think he or she is mature. Acting more than common sense means someone’s behavior is hard to put into action but which is good for others.
ReplyDeleteOn page 61 “Anyway, what a gorgeous job for a guy around sixty-five years old. Carrying people’s suitcases and waiting around for a tip.” How could he think that it could be gorgeous job for him? He knows that it’s hard to carry the heavy suitcases all day long. Even if he didn’t know that, he is still immature. How could he say he didn’t know that the job which the old man has is hard?
On page 69 “I gave him this very cold stare, like he’d insulted the hell out of me, and asked him, “Do I look like I’m under twenty-one?.” After this sentence he says that he knew what will happen to the waiter if he sells alcohols to him, but Holden kept angrily talking to the poor waiter. I think it’s very selfish action.
I think maturity is resposbility. Maturity person mean, people who have resposbility about their behaviors. Therefore, I think Holden is maturity person. He accepted his situation, such as kicked out of school. In this point I think Holden is maturity person.
ReplyDeleteThe diffrence of matruity and immaturity is paper-thin. I think the paper-thin is thinking times. Some people think twice, other people do not think and they do whatevrr they want. But it is different from impulse. In that point of view, Holden is impulsive but he is mature person. Sometime he is somewhat immature. But usually he does mature behavior. So i think Holden is mature person
ReplyDeleteI think maturity means an ability to think about others and stand own's desire. For example, in chapter 10, Holden wan't to call Phoebe but he thinks about Phoebe's and his mother's situation. And then he didn't call. So I view Holden is quite mature.
ReplyDeleteI think maturity is think for other people in chapter 10 he describes three women ugly, good dancer or bad dancer like specific. Thats why i think holden is maturity
ReplyDeleteI think maturity is the level of attitude. Whether a person is mature, he thinks differnetly, acts differently, and speaks differently from the past. But I think Holden is immature yet. For example, he decided girls by scanning them.
ReplyDelete