"...I went over to my window and opened it and packed a snowball with my bare hands. The snow was very good for packing. I didn't throw it at anything though. I started to throw it. At a car that was parked across the street. But I changed my mind. The car looked so nice and white. Then i started to throw it at a hydrant, but that looked too nice and white too." (Salinger 36)
From what we've talked about over the past couple of days (think of the rating scales) many of you commented that you felt Holden is not really mature. Of course, most of us aren't mature as teenagers, but many of us still tend to view Holden as immature. In chapter 5, we start to encounter one of the many symbolic elements of Catcher in the Rye that for some us starts to change our ideas about Holden's immaturity. Symbolism means "the use of symbols to show ideas or qualities"(www.dictionary.com).
Like most other novels we read, Catcher in the Rye has some symbolic events and items. Some will be displayed through characters, and some will be displayed through Holden's thoughts and questions. They tell us more about how Holden thinks and how he feels about the world around him. Furthermore, its these symbols that can sometimes change how we view Holden, or characters we encounter in any other novel.
However, symbols aren't reserved just for novels of course. Symbols are a part of our lives. Flags, art, music, movies, can be symbolic of other ideas and thoughts. Some symbols bring feelings of comfort, some bring feelings of concern, and others can bring feelings of joy. There is, of course, no limit to what symbols can represent.
Speaking personally, nature has always been a very comforting and relaxing symbol for me: trees, plants, forests, all of nature reminds me of the great strength that comes in the ability for plants to adapt, grow, and push forward. I can't enter a forest or be around nature without feeling amazed about how long it took for it to form, how much has the forest lived through (historically speaking), and how many struggles (winters, wars, insects, other trees or plants taking sunlight and water away from them) they have made it through and still exist today.
Holden, has a few of his own symbolic moments in the story. The snowball/snowfall is one of them. Why is Holden so drawn to this snowball? Why is the fact that a car and fire hydrant looking so pretty stop him from throwing the snowball at it? What does everything looking nice and white mean to Holden? What does it represent?
For homework, I want you to search online for what the color white is symbolic of. Choose what you think is the best definition of what the color white symbolizes to Holden in this moment in the novel and why. Then, share something you feel is very symbolic to you.
white is the symbol of purity, clearness, kindness, and protection. I think the white color symbols clearness to Holden, because he didn't want to ruin the image of the car covered in the snow by throwing snowballs. To talk about the symbol that is strongly meaningful to me, I am currently looking for one.
ReplyDeleteWhite is simbolic of life, death, purity, enlightment, angel, and simple, etc.
ReplyDeleteI think the best definition of Holden about white is purity. Although he decided to throw the snowball, he couldn't do that. Because the car or hydrant was so beautiful. At this point, I think Holden is so purity, because that is the only that reason that he couldn't throw the snowball.
And I think the best definition of me is universe. Because, as if the universe is becoming bigger, my curiosity is also becoming bigger. I have a lot of curiosity
I'm not sure how much of his stuff is available in Korean, but you might want to look into a guy called Neil DeGrasse Tyson. He's a famous astrophysicist (and also one of the people responsible for saying Pluto is no longer a planet :-P), who often has some very inspirational and exciting ways of thinking about the universe and outer space.
DeleteWhite has many positive meanings like freedom, purity, clearness, brightness and etc... But it also has negative meanings hiding their shape, failure and regret. The most proper symbol to describe Holden I think is regret. When he didn't throw snowballs and packed many of that, it means that he has a regret not throwing snowballs to any stuffs.
ReplyDeleteMy symbol is water. When the water is filled in circle shaped bowl, water forms circle shape. When the water is filled in triangle shaped bowl, water became triangle shape. As a student, my minds are changed depend on what kind of stuff I taught.
DeleteOver the meaning that I have searched for white, "purity" best fits for Holden. I consider the white snowball is a symbol that best describes Holden's purity and also the only factor that Holden can forget about the lying habit thing. In the book, Holden makes a snowball by himself. He tries to throw it at the car and hydrant but he didn't because it's only purity left in his conscience. When the bus driver says to throw his purity(snowball), he starts to blame people never believe anybody.
ReplyDeleteIn my case, the best symbol that describes me is tunnel. Tunnel is very dark inside but bright in the end. As for me, although proccess is always hard to tolerate, I believe after that adversity, there will be a great success.
I searched on google and it says snow represents purity, clenliness, innocence, faith, softness and perfection etc. I think the word that most fit to Holden is innocence because he tried to throw snowball to a car and a hydrant but he didn't. I think that Holden does not want to ruin the purity of a car and hydrant. They have some cleanlinss themselves and he doesn't want to distribute it. The symbol that describes me best is perfection. I want to do everything in perfect and if something goes out bad, then I can't do anything very well. If thing don't go out in perfect way, I am trying to do everything as perfect as I can.
ReplyDeleteThere are many symbols of white. I think the color white means purity in the catcher in the rye. He always complains about something and someone. He has no purity. He is immature, but he knows the thongs for adults such as hypocrisy, power, and so on. The imbalance between his immaturity and what he knows makes him complain something and experience the inner confliction. He wants purity. Therefore, he cannot throw it out the window. He want to protect purity which he doesn't have.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhite represents safety, purity, cleanliness, freedom, light, goodness, perfection, faith and a successful beginning. I think purity and cleanliness is best words to symbolize to Holden in this moment because Holden wants to throw the snowball but he could not do it. Like people usually like the opposite things with them, i can also see it from Holden' situation.Holden always thinks negatively but he doesn’t want to ruin the car or hydrant because he wants to protect the purity.
ReplyDeleteThe best word that describes me is hard worker because I always try my best at everything. I try to work hard and stay humble EVERY time. I believe if I work hard it, I’ll be where I want to be.
According to this book, I think white is about purity. In this book, Holden can't throwing snow ball at car. Becuase the car is too good and clear. It show us that Holden is very pure boy and snow ball also show us purity of Holden's mind
ReplyDeleteBefore the homework…..just want to share my opinion.
ReplyDeleteWhy is Holden so drawn to this snowball?
As you know, snowball is made by snow that easily get together and also fragile. Even though it’s soft, the sounds are huge enough to feel like something has broken when it hits something. Therefore, Holden could burst out his stress by using his muscles while he throw the snowballs and by listening big crash sounds such as ‘puck’ will make him feel better in the principle of deluding the brain that he has damaged something. Consequently, I think the characteristic of snowball that I mentioned above made him drawn to the snowball.
Why is the fact that a car and fire hydrant looking so pretty stop him from throwing the snowball at it?
There are studies about the smooth curve that its shape which gives people smooth, stable, and slippery feelings. As you can see in the picture above, snows that are piled up shows smooth curve and the hydrant will too. For that reason, he changed his mind not to throw the snowballs at it because it will break the bunch of snows and bring the ugly shaped snows.
What does everything looking nice and white mean to Holden? What does it represent?
I’ll answers in my homework.
I found the white color symbolizes the 'Purity' and I think this is perfect match for Holden. Holden is not that mature. This means, he is such a blank paper. People can draw a picture, or fold some paper to make a origami. Holden, too, he is blank and pure. That is because he is immature. His action in this chapter; throwing snowballs and realizes such a beautiful world, is so pure - like a child. This event shows that Holden is immature and pure because the event shows that Holden has an eye that can see the world purely. So I chose 'Purity' symbol of white color is the best fit for Holden.
ReplyDeleteI feel the 'Snow' is really symbolic to me. Snow falls when the world is so cold (cold as hell). However, when it falls, it covers the ground and make the world quiet and cozy. Have you ever feel the next early morning right after snow came? The world was so silent and cozy. The snow is such a thing that came when the world is so cold, and ease the world by its appearance. So, I think the snow as a symbolic thing.
Among many meanings of WHITE, there is the neutrality. The color white draws the tranquillity from Holden. On the page 36, Holden packed snowballs and threw it. But, right after that, he quit, thinking the white car and a white hydrant looked so nice. In sum, WHITE reileved Holden's violence and changed his perspectives on objects. It is meaningful to read this scene for readers because it is the first time to watch Holden's decision-still emotional, not to throw snowballs towards white things, based on a certain matter.
ReplyDeleteLike Holden is controlled by snowfalls, I have smilar feelings to the music. Defying Gravity, a song from the musical WICKED, is my symbolic element which gives me confidence. 2 years ago, I was so nervous during the English camp and I have to do something to introduce myself. So I sang this song, then, all the classmates and the teacher praised me. After this experience, I always listen to Defying Gravity whenever I feel lonesome, deprssed, or discouraged.
White color symbolizes honest, modesty, pureness, peace and loneliness but in this novel, to Holden, I think pureness is the best suitable symbol of white. There are 5 clues that I though like this.
ReplyDeleteTo begin with, Holden think that the same meal on Saturday nights at Pencey is calculated by Thurmer who is the principle of this school.
Secondly, about his friend Ackley, Holden asked him to come along with Mal Brossard to see the movies. The problem occurs here. When he asked to Ackley, he responded like he is doing a big favor to them.
Thirdly, Holden is doing stradlater’s English composition homework. Needles to say, it’s cheating.
Lastly, about Ackley again, he thinks having a sexual intercourse is kind of a source of pride. Moreover, his story about ‘it’ always changes.
Mentioned above are the 4 examples that show the dark side of Holden’s surrounding. Besides, he mentioned about the pure bright story that is about kind and nice but died on July 18, 1946, brother Allie’s. Holden portrayed him as a very nice kid and I think he really doted on him. The reason why I think so is he burst out his anger and sadness by breaking all the windows in the garage that he could stand brother Allie’s death. He said he didn’t even know what he was doing and he tried to break more windows on the station wagon but he couldn’t do it because of his damaged hands. Decisively, he keep Allie’s fielder’s mitt which has poems that Allie had written before. As you can feel, while Holden is narrating about the bright side of his people he doesn’t use slangs as much as he did. Holden use relatively clean sentences when he describes about Jane Gallagher as well as Allie than others.
I thought Holden is immature and don’t know what is good and wrong but now, I’m not sure he is mature but he knows what the bright side is and dark side is. As I mentioned above, he treats bad things bad and good things good. If he treated white side as dark than I wouldn’t think that he feels the white as pure but it’s not.
In conclusion, I think the symbol of the white color in this story is the pureness.
I’m afraid that I explained my opinion well….It’s hard to explain what I want to speak. ㅡ.ㅡ
Sentences that are spoken by famous people are symbolic to me. For instance, wise saying by Chalie chepline that you sent to me by an e-mail. When I found or heard about nice wise saying, I always take a memo on paper or in my cell phone. It sometimes gives me courage, at other times it shows the way which I have to go, another time it pushes me to go right way.
So, to me, dead or alive, people’s wise sayings are very symbolic to me.
(Is this sentence grammatically right? Including comma.)
Umm…may be this could be more suitable answer to your question.
My diary is the most symbolic thing that I have. It almost involves my whole life, thoughts, feelings, and good or bad memories.
To conclude, I have 2 symbolic things. One is ‘Nice wise sayings’ that I collected and the other is ‘My diary’ which almost have my whole life.
There are many meanings of the color, white. Among some meanings, 'purity' can describe holden's image in this novel and the best definition. In the novel, Holden said he packed a snowball and tried to throw it, but he did not because the car and other things looked nice and white. According to this scene, I feel he is pure and clear like a child who likes just snow and want to stick to stay clear. In my case, 'perfection' fits to me because I usually want to be perfect to do own my way and I do my work until I am satisfied with the result.
ReplyDeleteWhite color represents purity, cleanness, simple and etc. I think the cleanness is the most symbolical characteristic for Holden. There are so many things that Holden has cleanness. First of all, Holen hates Ackley's dirt. Moreover, he didn't want to remove the cleanness of the car. Also, cleanness includes another meaning; innocence. That's why he had an angry about Pency's system.
ReplyDeleteFor me, the most symbolical thing is ths Sun. The sun is always bright and I also smile and be happy. Futhermore, the sun gives lights to other plnet. It resembles my sacrifice to other students.
White-purity represents Holden. Holden didnt throw the snow because he didnt want to make them dirty. So I thought that Holden has remaining purity. And I thought that he looks like white paper which isnt dyed any color. So Im expected to his growing.
ReplyDeleteAnd my symbol is sincerity. I think I dont have secrets. I express almost all of my feeling. So Im more sincere than most of people I think
White is the color that means good,innocence,cleanliness and purity. I think Holden is associated with purity.He has antisoical character because he hates pretense of society.
ReplyDeleteHe had compliants about advertise of Pencey, only showing some hotshot guy on a horse jumping over the fence.Like as if all students ever did at Pencey was a playing a polo.He also blamed the hard steak on the Saturday night that Pencey always gives to them because of a lot of guy's parents who come up to the school on sunday.
White colour contains several meanings such as loneliness, purity, saint, protection and bright. In the story of Catcher in the Rye, the main character Holden takes the meaning of loneliness. He is always alone in the story such as when he was watching a match in the hill in the beginning of the story. Also, most of the people are doing some kind of discrimination to him. He gets Fs for most of the classes, therefore he is discriminated to the staffs at school.
ReplyDeleteTo me, I think bright represents me the best. I always want to be in the front and delightful in a certain group whether it is small or big. Moreover, I have a specific vision to live a bright life in the future.
White have lots of meaning such as purity, honest, shine, peace etc. I choose honest for symbol of holden in this book. The way that he express his motion is just as the teenagers express, and usually people in that age have fully emotional feeling. They express their feeling just the way they think.
ReplyDeleteThe symbol of me is two-sided. Before I get to know each other, almost all of my friends thought that I am the person who have cold-hearted. But most of them change their mind after get to know each other, even talk each other just a second. After that they know that I am such a warm-hearted person.
Usually white color is sympol of peace, solidity, truth, freedom and purity. In my opinion, symbolic of holden is similar to freedom. Holden always admire freedom. He didn't want to be controled by school and teachers. He want to have his own time. My sybolic word is "freedom" also. I have many similarity with Holden. I admire freedom, and always try to do what I want.
ReplyDeleteWhite color have many things purity,cleanliness and innocence.
ReplyDeleteI think Holden's characteristic is closer to cleanliness
holden hates Ackley's dirty behavior also holden didn't throw snowball to someone's car thats behavior also symbolize holden is closer to cleanliness
White represents many things and among them, I think the purity or the cleanness is the symbol for Holden. Maybe because he is immature yet, he could have some purity inside his mind. Perhaps he wanted to keep his mind clean, so I think that's why Holden didn't throw his snowball.
ReplyDeleteAs for me, my symbol would be the color grey. It was, and it would always be grey. A color grey can mean bystanders. And I think myself as a bystander. I don't like to care much about other people because I think it's not my business.
usually white symbolizes purity, clearness, inncence, simplicity, perfection but sometimes white can be symbolized as erasion, stupiedness, abandonment and so on.
ReplyDeletei guess holden felt perfecion when he saw white car and white hydrant and that's the reason why holden couldn't throw snowball to white car and hydrant because he didn't want to break the perfect things with his dirty snowball that he made with his own hands and also he maybe feel himself dirty and negative
In my case the most symbolic thing to me is mick jagger
because i think mick jagger represent some desire for freedom and creativeness and these two things is the most desirable to me
that's why mick jagger is my symbol
White has many meanings. First it has meanings like pure, clean, perfect, protection. However, it can also mean like emptiness, and coldness. In the Catcher in the Rye, Holden throws white snowballs to someplaces. He doesn't throw snowball to clean and white things. This means that the color white means purification to him. For me the white means coldness. When I see white things it makes me think that I'm lonely and cold. Some times it also gives me a emptyness in my thought too.
ReplyDeleteYou all (or youse as we say in Buffalo :-P) have some very interesting things to say about Holden and this moment in the story. While purity seems to be the most common, I definitely think all of the answers you guys have been providing work very well: purity, honesty, clearness, freedom, neutrality. All sorts of ideas, which when you think about it, we almost never would have used these words with Holden in the past. Maybe there's more to Holden than what we originally thought.
ReplyDeleteAlso, you guys have quite the variety of symbols in your lives. Its interesting to see what motivates/describes all of you! You make connections to personal items, pop culture, nature, abstract (non-physical symbols), and so on. Those connections are what define you, I wonder how you would turn them into useful and detailed symbolism in your own stories if you ever write a semi-autobiograpical novel like Salinger :-).
On a side note: this is my fourth time reading Catcher in the Rye. I read it once in high school, and I read it again every time I teach it (even though I remember most of the story by heart). The reason I always read it again is that there is always new ways of looking at the material and perceiving it in different ways. And whenever I teach this book, you ladies and gentlemen ALWAYS teach me new ways of looking at the book/characters/symbolism as well. So great job, thank you for working so hard on your comments to the blog, and also thank you for always reminding me there is more to learn about this novel :-).
Thank you for your interest in teaching for us. We truly learn lots of things from you. We learn lots of things in your class and in this blog.
DeleteAbout the blog, you told us that this is the first time you use for the homework, right? I think it's a very good way for learning English and sharing the ideas with others. I hope you to keep using this item not only us but also next SUNY students who will come in 2014.
It's already monday so, see you about 8hours later. lol
White is the symbol of purity, humbleness, peace immaturity and so on. If you read the story you might recognize he is a pure guy. His behaviors might be seen as a immature, but that's because of his purity. He's still young.
ReplyDeleteFor me, I will say immaturity of white matches me. I always pretend to be a mature guy, but actually I'm not. I have lots of trouble deciding things or solving problems. So I try to be a mature by learning from others. No matter how young or old they are.
White means clearness, holy things, elegance, purity, hardheadedness and emptiness.
ReplyDeleteI think emptiness fits Holden. Because in chapter5 he has no date and engagement. And he has nothing to throwing the snowball. So I think that it makes him feel empty and that thick snow means his stuffy emotion.
To me, white means vulnerable. Because it is very clean but if a bit of dirty comes into white, the white will lose their meaning. I mean white as such is precious and perfect thing but it also can be changed easily.
White color has a lot of meaning such as purity, empty, cleaness, brightness, etc. I think 'purity' best fits Holden. The reason is that Holden couldn't throw the snowball because of the clean snow on the ground. I also think that Holden is so kind to write Stradlater's composition about his dead brother.
ReplyDeleteThe sky is my symbol. In my name, there is meaning about sky, and I want to be a person who has capacity to care everyone like sky.
White color have many symbolic meanings. But the best meaning that represents Holden is possibility, I think. He always think or talk negatively but in chapter 5 he talks about his sister positively and says the snows are white and pure.It tells us he has a possibility being a good boy.
ReplyDeleteAlso, for me, the color red represents me. Red mean action, assertive, passionate, exciting, etc. From these passionate is the best meaning to me.
Purity and loneliness are typical meanings of white. In the story, Holden is matching with white. Because he looks lonely. He always think egocentric, it means he always alone and felt lonely. He like packing snow but he didn't throw. It means he didn't want broke snow and made car dirtily, because he has purity.
ReplyDeleteFor me, the symbolic thing to me is fire. Sometimes people think I am hothead, sometimes true but I have a positive drive not careless. I always purchase perfection so I make an effort to perfect. It makes me always hot.
White color represent purity clear . And i think Holden is pure .even though he behaves very young and sometimes he does things what others hate I think pure is the reason why he behaves like that . For instance when I was in middle school there were some friends like Holden. They liked to do some bad things with others. But they were childish and they were pure and I can match them with Holden.
ReplyDelete